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Epicycles All The Way Down

▲ 39 points 15 comments by surprisetalk 2mo ago HN discussion ↗

Pangram verdict · v3.3

We believe that this document is fully human-written

3 %

AI likelihood · overall

Human
100% human-written 0% AI-generated
SEGMENTS · HUMAN 5 of 5
SEGMENTS · AI 0 of 5
WORD COUNT 1,949
PEAK AI % 0% · §1
Analyzed
Apr 20
backend: pangram/v3.3
Segments scanned
5 windows
avg 390 words each
Distribution
100 / 0%
human / AI fraction
Verdict
Human
Pangram v3.3

Article text · 1,949 words · 5 segments analyzed

Human AI-generated
§1 Human · 0%

“All models are wrong, but some are useful.” — George E. P. Box“All LLM successes are as human successes, each LLM failure is alien in its own way.”I was convinced I had a terrible memory throughout my schooling. As a consequence pretty much for every exam in math or science I would re-derive any formula that was needed. Kind of a waste, but what could I do. Easier than trying to remember them, I thought. It worked until I think second year of college, when it didn’t. But because of this belief, I did other dumb things too beyond not study. For example I used to play poker. And I was convinced, and this was back in the day when neural nets were tiny things, that my brain was similar and I could train it using inputs and outputs and not actually bother doing the complex calculations that would be needed to measure pot odds and things like that. I mean, I can’t know the counterfactual but I’m reasonably sure this was a worse way to play poker that just actually doing the math, but it definitely was a more fun way to do it, especially when combined with reasonable quantities of beer. I was convinced that just from the outcomes I would be able to somehow back out a playing strategy that would be superior. It didn’t work very well. I mean, I didn’t lose much money, but I definitely didn’t make much money either. Somehow the knowledge I got from the outcomes didn’t translate into telling me when to bet, how much to bet, when to raise, how much to raise, when to fold, how to analyse others, how to bluff, you know all those things that if you want to play poker properly you should have a theory about.Instead what I had were some decent heuristics on betting and a sense of how others would bet. The times I managed to get a bit better were the times I could convert those ideas of how my “somewhat trained neural net” said I should and then calculated the pot odds and explicitly tried to figure out what others had and tried to use those as inputs alongside my vibes. I tried to bootstrap understanding from outcomes alone, and I failed1. “What I cannot create, I do not understand.” —

§2 Human · 0%

Richard FeynmanThis essay is about why LLMs feel like understanding engines but behave like over-fit pattern-fitters, why we keep adding epicycles that get us closer to exceptional performance, instead of changing the core generator, and why that makes their failures look more like flash crashes and market blow-ups than like Skynet.One way this makes sense is that mathematically the number of ways to create a pattern has to be more than the number of patterns themselves. There are more words than letters. The set of all possible 1000 character outputs is huge, but the set of programs that could print any one of them is larger2. An LLM trained on the patterns swims in an ocean of possible generators and the entire game of training is to identify those extra constraints so it has reason to pick the shortest, truest one. Neural networks have inductive biases that privilege certain solutions.There is an interesting mathematical or empirical question to be answered here. What are the manifolds of sufficiently diverse patterns which can be used such that collectively it will turn away the wrong principles and keep only the correct generative principles? I’m not smart enough to prove this but perhaps starting with Gold’s theorem, which says something like if all you ever see are positive examples of behaviour, then for a sufficiently rich class of programs it might well be true that no algorithm can be guaranteed to eventually lock onto the exact true program that produced them. LLMs are a giant practical demonstration of this. They implicitly infer some program that fits the data, but not necessarily the program you “meant”.I asked Claude about this, and it said:The deeper truth is that success is low-dimensional. There are relatively few ways to correctly solve “2+2=” or properly summarize a news article. The constraint satisfaction problem has a small solution space. But failure is high-dimensional—there are infinitely many ways to be wrong, and LLMs explore regions of that failure space that human cognition simply doesn’t reach. One way to think about this is as the distinction between complexity in a system and randomness. Often indistinguishable in its effects, but fundamentally different in its nature. A world where a butterfly can flap its wings and cause a hurricane somewhere else is also a world that is somewhat indistinguishable from being filled with the randomness.

§3 Human · 0%

The difference of course as that the first one is not random, it is deterministic, it just seems random because we cannot reliably predict every single step that the computation needs to take in all its complex glory. One of Taleb’s targets is what he calls the “ludic fallacy,” the idea that the sort of randomness encountered in games of chance can be taken as a model for randomness in real life. As Taleb points out, the “uncertainty” of a casino game like roulette or blackjack cannot be considered analogous to the radical uncertainty faced by real-life decision-makers—military strategists, say, or financial analysts. Casinos deal with known unknowns—they know the odds, and while they can’t predict the outcome of any individual game, they know that in the aggregate they will make a profit. But in Extremistan, as Donald Rumsfeld helpfully pointed out, we deal with unknown unknowns—we do not know what the probabilities are and we have no firm basis on which to make decisions or predictions.This isn’t just Taleb being esoteric. The rules that were learnt were not the rules that should have been learnt. This is a classic ML problem, that still exists in deep learning. The Fed sent a letter to banks about using not-easily-interpretable ML to judge loan applications for this reason. For an easier to see example, autonomous driving is a case of painfully ironing out edge cases one after the other, because the patterns the models learnt weren’t sufficiently representative of our world. Humans learn to drive with about 50 hours of instruction, Waymo in 2019 itself had run 10 billion simulated miles and 20m real miles, and Tesla at 6 billion real miles driven and quite likely hundreds of billions of miles as training data.This isn’t as hopeless as it sounds. We see with LLMs that they are remarkably similar to humans in how they think about problems, they don’t get led astray all that often. The remarkable success of next token prediction is precisely that it turned out to learn the right generative understanding.LLMs are brilliant at identifying a “line of best fit” across millions of dimensions, and in doing so produces miracles. It’s why Ted Chiang called it a blurry jpeg of the internet a couple of years ago. “

§4 Human · 0%

With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk.” — John von NeumannEric Baum had a book published more than twenty years ago, called “What Is Thought?” Its excellent title aside, the core premise was that understanding is compression. Just like drawing a line of best fit seems to gets you the right understanding in statistics, y = mx + c, so do we with all the datapoints we encounter in life.The spiritual godfather of this blog, Douglas Hofstadter, thought about understanding as rooted in conceptualisation and core understanding. There was a recent New Yorker article that discussed this, and relationship to the truly weirder aspects of high dimensional storage of facts or memory.In a 1988 book called “Sparse Distributed Memory,” Kanerva argued that thoughts, sensations, and recollections could be represented as coördinates in high-dimensional space. The brain seemed like the perfect piece of hardware for storing such things. Every memory has a sort of address, defined by the neurons that are active when you recall it. New experiences cause new sets of neurons to fire, representing new addresses. Two addresses can be different in many ways but similar in others; one perception or memory triggers other memories nearby. The scent of hay recalls a memory of summer camp. The first three notes of Beethoven’s Fifth beget the fourth. A chess position that you’ve never seen reminds you of old games—not all of them, just the ones in the right neighborhood.This is a rather perfect theory of LLMs. It’s also testable. I built transformers to try and predict Elementary Cellular Automata, to see how easily they could learn the underlying rules3.I also tried creating various combinations of wave functions (3-4 equations and combining them) and seeing if the simple transformer models can learn those, and understand the underlying rules. These are combinations of simple equations, like a basic wave function with a few transformations. And yet:There have been other similar attempts. This paper, what has a foundation model found, in particular was fascinating because it tried to use a similar method to see if you could predict orbits of planets based only on observational data. And the models managed to do it, except they all tried to approximate instead of learning the fundamental underlying generative path4.This manifold question - “which diverse pattern sets collapse to unique generators” - is probably intractable without solving the frame problem.

§5 Human · 0%

After all, if we could characterise those manifolds, we’d have a theory of induction, which is to say we’d have solved philosophy.Maybe if we got them to think through why they were predicting the things they were predicting as they were getting trained, they could get better at figuring out the underlying rules. It does add a significant lag to their training, but essential nonetheless. Right now we seem stuck with Ptolemaic astronomy, scholastically adding epicycles upon epicycles, without making the leap to hit the inverse-square law. Made undeniably harder because there isn’t just one law to discover, but legion.“The aim is not to predict the next data point, but to infer the rule that generates all of them.” — Michael SchmidtOne solution to this problem is reasoning. If you’ve learnt a wrong pattern, you can reason your way to the right one, using the ideas at your disposal. It doesn’t matter if you’re wrong, as long as you can course correct.Since LLMs are trained to predict the patterns that exist inside a large corpus of data, in doing so they do end up learning some of the ways in which you could create those patterns (i.e., thinking), even if not necessarily the right or the only way in which we see that getting created. So a large part of the efforts we put is to teach them the right ways.Now we have given models a way to think for themselves. It started as soon as we had chatbots and could get them to “think step by step”. We get to do that across many different lines of thought, reflect back on what they found, and fix things along the way. This is, despite the anthropomorphisation, reasoning. If every rollout is in some sense a function, reasoning is a form of search over those latent programs, with external tools, including memory. Reasoning this way even gets us negative examples and better data, helping loosen the constraints of Gold’s theorem.It’s also true that now they can reason, we do see them groping their way towards what absolutely looks like actual understanding. This can also often seem like using its enormous corpus of existing patterns that it knows and trying to first-principles-race its way towards the right steps to take to get to the answer.